Sikhpoint: Bhai Sahib Ji, this interview is aimed at giving, especially young Sikhs worldwide, an insight into your life, your interest and proficiency in gurbani Kirtan, and your views. You are not the traditional 'ragi' or 'kirtania' or 'jatha', what is your motivation to sing gurbani Kirtan?

Dya Singh Ji: You have pointed out a number of 'not's'. Let me give you another one - I am not a Bhai Sahib. I do not deserve the title of Bhai Sahib. I am merely a lover of gurbani Kirtan and not even Indian born, though I am gifted with a good voice. But, Bhai Sahib? I do not qualify to be called a Bhai Sahib.

Sikhpoint: Then what is the qualification of a Bhai Sahib?

Dya Singh Ji: Think Bhai Nand Lal, Bhai Kanhaia, Bhai Taru, Bhai Mani Singh. Think Bhai Samund Singh, think Bhai Awthar Singh, Bhai Vir Singh ... get the picture? I qualify as a Sardar - proudly Sikh I am, but a highly learned Sikh philosopher or 'ragi' I am not. At this point I must make mention that I do get very disturbed when I hear of ordinary youngish Kirtanias being referred to as 'Sant so and so', for example Sant Anoop Singh, Sant Niranjan Singh. I think this is a total abuse of the word Sant, let alone Bhai Sahib!

Sikhpoint: Okay Sardar Sahib! What is your motivation to sing gurbani?

Dya Singh Ji: For too long 'gurbani Kirtan' has been confined to the four walls of gurdwaras or Sikh homes. It is a God-given gift to us Sikhs, to spread to the four corners of this planet. Secondly, it will appear that gurbani Kirtan as is being rendered today does not appeal to the younger generation. Something needs to be done to get the word of our Guru to our youth. I think I am, and I hope I can, play a small part in doing that, and perhaps help take off the blinkers of many Sikhs who still think 'Indian' rather than 'universal'.

Sikhpoint: Should Kirtan be done in 'raags'?

Dya Singh Ji: Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is written in raags - thirty one raags listed but sixty-six, I think, variations plus Punjabi folk melodies like 'alahniyan', 'ghodian' and 'dhunian'. There is also a great deal of gurbani which is not written in raags like Jap Ji Sahib, Saloks of Guru Tegh Bahadur, bani of Kalghidhar Pita, Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji, etc. To pass a remark like 'bani should be sung in raags' is erroneous - it is meaningless. For example, Anand Sahib is written in Raag Ramkali but you cannot be singing Raag Ramkali when rendering the 'Panj Paudian' at the end of a service. Nevertheless, where bani is written in raags, there is no doubt, that is the indication given by our Guru Sahiban. Meanwhile, we should not stifle creativity in the presentation of shabads, though the spiritual upliftment aspect of gurbani Kirtan must always be considered and remains paramount.

Sikhpoint: How would you describe your style of doing Kirtan?

Dya Singh Ji: Antrarasthri gurbani Kirtan! Universal gurbani Kirtan. I prefer to describe myself as a Gursangeetkar. Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji was an experimentalist too. He is reputed to have had two 'non-Sikh' musicians - namely Bhai Bala and Mardhana and later I believe Bhai Mardhana's son joined him. Perhaps my musicians are from farther afield like Nepal, Australia, Germany, England and even Vietnam. But, I am merely following my Guru Ji's example.

Sikhpoint: How closely do you stay to traditional gurbani Kirtan?

Dya Singh Ji: I think ever discovering and re-discovering one's roots is very essential. It is beautiful to sing shabads in the raags they are prescribed in. I do my own research on our traditional Kirtan. I am getting a great deal of help from luminaries like Bhai Sahib Ragi Awthar Singh Ji of Bangla Sahib and Professor Darshan Singh Ji Sohal in UK and I incorporate all that I learn into our form of Kirtan. I allow my musicians free interpretation of the raags within the laws, but I am attempting to help evolve our traditional Kirtan into the 21st. Century. Perhaps I am making it more palatable to our younger generation and also helping to popularise it amongst non-Sikhs worldwide. I do sing shabads outside the raags, especially of course those shabads which are not raag prescribed.

Sikhpoint: Can you name a few?

Dya Singh Ji: Mool Mantr, Mitr pyare nu, Jo thao prem khelan ka chao, Deh Shiva, Sevak ke bherepoor jug jug...

Sikhpoint: OK, should Bollywood filmi tunes be used to present shabads?

Dya Singh Ji: Again, this is not a 'Yes' or 'No' situation. Let me explain. The purpose of music in presentation of shabads is that it is a vehicle to enhance the shabad. That the meaning of the shabad should become even clearer and profound by the music. But, if all the music does is to remind you of which Hindi movie it is from, who acted and what the story was, then one is not doing justice to the shabad. A great many old filmi tunes actually came from, or were inspired by our great 'raagis' and also, many old filmi tunes are based on raags. I see no harm in using these to present shabads as long as the shabad is enhanced and the melody leads to a heightened spiritual state. My last word on the subject is that we should not stifle creativity, but be inspired by the shabad and by the indications of music as given by our Guru Sahibs. Why 'ape' Bollywood at all?

Sikhpoint: Some views on Sikhi then? Sikhi to you, in one word!

Dya Singh Ji: Discipline.

Sikhpoint: Elaborate?

Dya Singh Ji: Well, I like to take each day as it comes. I utter the Kirtan Sohila before sleeping, which means I say my final prayers - the same prayers that will be read when I pass on finally. I thank Waheguru Ji for giving me a great day. If I wake up the next morning then I want to make the most of that day - which means I want to get up early, to start the day right. The best planning to have a 'great' day is to start the day right. 'Amrit vela sach nau, vedeyayi vichar' - Recite Nitnem, do Naam Simren, praise the Lord and 'vichaar', which to me means plan the day in Cherdhi Kala! Discipline is needed to wake up before the sun comes up and do Naam Simren and Nitnem. My venerable Bapu Ji used to say - "Save Amritvela, and you are saved!" That discipline gives you the best start to the day and the practice of Sikhi.

Sikhpoint: Your views on partaking of 'Amrit'?

Dya Singh Ji: 'Amrit' is an essential part in the growth of a young Sikh but needs to be portrayed as a means to be free, liberated, rather than a death sentence. Rather than affirmations of belonging to a group which is progressive, teaching self improvement, leadership and emancipation, and removing the shackles of fear, ignorance and darkness, 'amrit' is portrayed as restrictive, prescriptive, prohibitive and threatening. For example, if you do not wear a kirpan, then you must seek forgiveness, repent, take your punishment and promise never to not wear your kirpan again. If you happen to eat from another's plate, who happens to be a non-Amritdhari, then your amrit is 'broken' and it must be taken again. Fear is instilled into youngsters about amrit so much so they prefer not to take it, leaving their lives unfulfilled. Amrit once taken does not break unless of course you commit a 'heinous' crime including, in Sikhi, the removal of hair. Is it not strange that an Amritdhari Sikh can commit murder yet still be considered a full-fledged amritdhari Sikh? An amritdhari Sikh in Australia was convicted and goaled for growing marijuana, yet no one has forced him to retake his vows! Yet, if an Amritdhari eats from someone else's plate, he/she is supposed to have committed a kurahit? I think Amrit needs to be redefined in line with today.

Sikhpoint: Your views on the 5 'K's'?

Dya Singh Ji: Uncut kesh are as prescribed by Kalghidar pita, Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji. Sorry, no concession there. They are our shining glory, our identity, our individuality, our common bond. I am recognised by my hair and turban and I am proud of that! Kara is easy enough - my only ornament. Again my identification. Kanga - very useful, unless I am bald! Nevertheless it is to comb my hair and it is my insignia of cleanliness. Kachera - an area of contention. I believe the kachera cannot replace ordinary underwear because one should look decent, presentable if only in one's kachera. We should be proud of wearing a distinct kachera which is different from jocks or boxers. But, I think some modification is necessary. I, for example, travel a great deal - public toilets etc. One of the greatest banes of wearing a kachera is going to the toilet, as a male especially. First, one cannot use a urinal. Secondly, one is unable to use the zip on a trouser and thirdly undoing a 'nala' in a hurry...if you get the picture. So, I have a slit in the front of the kachera with buttons through which I can urinate after unzipping!

Sikhpoint: Why not boxer shorts? They are decent, they have slits in front for ease in toilets etc.?

Dya Singh Ji: Good question. Well, first of all, it is not a kachera and secondly, I look upon it as part of my vanity if you like! Just like one prefers to wear a made to measure shirt or trousers rather than one off the rack, why should we not wear a 'made-to-measure' kachera rather than a boxer off the rack? Our own unique designs complying with the Maryada. All the Maryada, (Akal Takhat Maryada of course), says is that a kachera should be 'above the knees' - well, thank God for that! Rehat Maryada does not give a specific design but we have the general idea passed down to us and it is now a medical fact that underwear should not be tight - nothing like the kachera for ventilation around your vital parts! No, I think the Guru Ji was very far sighted when he prescribed the kachera and we should be trend-setters rather than followers of fashion. A kachera can be a fashion statement

Sikhpoint: What about kirpan?

Dya Singh Ji: Kirpan is a difficult one considering the circumstances after 9/11. Let me state firstly that we should carry a kirpan - it is a gift from Kalghidar pita, Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji, our father and one of the 5K's. One should treasure it as much as the other four K's. I normally carry my kirpan in my luggage or my carry bag due to hassles in air travel. More importantly, I think, what a kirpan tells me is that I should be physically fit and conversant with the art of self defence. My body, my being, should be a kirpan so that I can defend myself and if I need to go to the aid of someone. I know of fellow Sikhs who have been lugging a kirpan around for years but are unfit and know nothing about self defence. I do not see the purpose then, of carrying a kirpan just to keep ones amrit intact. Physical fitness is part of being a Khalsa, not the carrying of a kirpan.

Sikhpoint: So, your advice to youngsters on the partaking of amrit.

Dya Singh Ji: Amrit, is our liberation from our earthly bonds and attachment to our father Guru Gobind Singh Ji and in turn our belonging to Waheguru as in 'Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa'. It is our commitment to the Khalsa brother/sisterhood. Amrit once taken does not break easily. Once Guru Gobind Singh Ji has taken you under his wing, he does not easily give you up. Amrit does insist on a certain discipline - a successful life cannot be led unless we have a certain discipline. A discipline also gives us the freedom from being hounded by 'peer-pressure'. You gain immunity from peer pressure! First Khalsahood insists on one being keshadhari and secondly, a discipline of getting up early and doing Nitnem - three banis in the morning and two at night as prescribed by Akal Takhat. This discipline breeds success in life. This is Guru Ji's promise and I can vouch for the success part of it. To me, these are the first two important aspects of being a Khalsa. The rest follows and in my mind are secondary to these two aspects. That makes a Khalsa. It is as simple as that.

Sikhpoint: I believe you have started getting invitations to talk at Sikh Youth Camps, help co-ordinate them, prepare curriculums etc. Firstly how did this start?

Dya Singh Ji: My interest in my involvement in gurbani Kirtan is for the next generation. I have three daughters and to bridge the gap between them and I, I got them and myself, involved in this venture. Something we could do together. Well, that has got bigger than we envisaged! And it has helped profoundly in my daughters being proudly 'Sikh' in their identity. I think my fairly liberal and moderate, yet proudly 'Sikh' views on Sikhi also endears me to the younger generation. My love for Sikhi was first of all nurtured by my venerable Bapu Ji. But, I also had the company of some great Sikh luminaries in my teenage years through the Sikh Naujawan Sabha, Malaysia which started in around 1963 under the auspices of some great saintly Sikhs in Malaysia like Sant Baba Sohan Singh Ji Melaka, Sardar Gurbachan Singh Ji, Port Dickson, Sardar Surjit Singh Ji Bassian, Sardar Joginder Singh Tanjong Malim. In short I am perhaps a product of Sikh Samelans (Youth Camps) in Malaysia from way back in 1963. Hence an affinity with Youth Camps. Since then I have been back in Malaysia for youth camps which run almost throughout the year there and in Singapore. Then I was specifically invited by a Bhavdeep Singh to attend the Tuscarora Sikh Youth Camp in New York in 1998.

Sikhpoint: Can you give us a run down of the Sikh Youth Camps you frequent now?

Dya Singh Ji: OK. In Australia I am involved in the Youth Camps in Sydney, Melbourne and Adelaide. The Sydney Youth Camp organisers are very professional and last year I helped them prepare a Camp Guide booklet which was very successful. We intend to do one such booklet every year.

In USA this year we have been involved in Youth Camps in Yuba City, New Orleans, Phoenix, Michigan and Lohgarh in Pennsylvania. One day camps which are going to become regular camps were initiated in Orange County near LA; Orlando and Ft. Lauderdale in Florida, Washington; San Jose and Sacramento in California. There are possibilities of doing such camps in Houston, Texas; Jacksonville and Baltimore.

In Canada, there has been interest in Edmonton and Vancouver including Vancouver Island. In UK we attended the camp in Chigwell, London, Slough and Hounslow.

Sikhpoint: I believe there has been initial opposition to your attending some of these camps?

Dya Singh Ji: (Laughs!) Yes, plenty. I guess I am not the run-of-the-mill Bhai Sahib, Granthi, or even 'Percharak' or 'Ragi'. People are disturbed when a larrakin like me starts addressing their children. They fear my leading them astray! But I think as time as gone on, they realise that their children are my children and I will not ill advise them. I might be controversial but I think that my sentiments of Sikhi are not out of place. In fact in some places I am made very welcome and have been re-invited because concerned parents find that their children respond positively to my ways and the way we present Kirtan!

Sikhpoint: So, you think there is great potential in Youth camps in the future?

Dya Singh Ji: Yes! I strongly believe so. Gurdwaras, the traditional places which should be catering for the youth are, in general, too set in their ways in terms of keeping everything traditional and are more concerned with moneymaking rituals so that they can keep on running, rather than worrying over much about the needs of the younger generation. This is where dedicated sewadars know that this sewa, of getting youth together and teaching them the values of Sikhi, helping them to cope with the pressures of the 21st century the 'Sikhi' way, and helping them to network is the dire need of the day.

Sikhpoint: Back to your music. I believe the Dya Singh group does Kirtan at concerts, festivals etc. Can you elaborate?

Dya Singh Ji: Well, if we want to spread the word of Gurbani to non-Sikhs then we have to take it to them. Hence, folk, new age, arts, world music, spiritual festivals and concerts, conventions and even shopping centers. We have been performing to non-Sikh audiences for the past ten years.